Thank you, John, for your thoughts which add much to my musings. Re-reading my post, after publication, I see room for clarification and expansion. Your words help with that.
I like integration. I also like the idea of being “in harmony or in sync with” the divine nature (our true nature) as alternatives for salvation.
I will have to wrap this up for now but before I do, what do you think of grace as something like “action and/or healing which is effected without any ego if effort?”
Thank you for your musings and Zen kitty poses. I fully agree with your substitutions for the word "sin". Yes, sin is not so much a specific action, but a spiritual alienation. The word "sin" in Latin means "without" - cafe sin leche (coffee without cream). When we become "sinful" we have left our spiritual integrity and are feeling lost and afraid.
Yes, "belonging" is a good term for "salvation", but I would choose the word "integration" - a reunion or homecoming of my lost elements of Self back into a sense of wholeness and integrity. The word "grace" naturally fits into the discussion. I would term it as the ability to dis-integrate and to return to one's Self with a natural ease and minimal effort. Yes, cats are Olympic gold medal winners in this category (pun intended).
Thanks, Bill. Yes, "sin" has always been a word I have not appreciated. It seems to me that the feeling of alienation comes perhaps before the sin, the act of sinning, the alienation enables the sinful act.
Another Christian theological concept I find problematic is reflected in a phrase common in a Catholic service: "I'm not worthy to receive You..." Is there value in thinking of myself as in some way "not worthy"? It is similar to "sinful" in some ways. But God's Grace (or the Body of Christ in the Eucharist) is never something we are going to deserve anyway! That's exactly the point, that we don't "earn" or "deserve" grace. Is there value in expressing our unworthiness?
It's an interesting thought, that alienation might come before the "act" and be its cause. I think there's something to that, for sure. I'm not sure that there is any other cause for so called "sinful acts," really. If one is 100% in tune with the divine, one would naturally behave in accordance with the divine. Is that your way fo thinking?
Another possibility is that the act causes the alienation. That seems like a valid description of at least some instances too. But since we are all living in a state of alienation all the time (just from our cultural inheritance of having been born into this fallen world (to continue using traditionalist language) then perhaps alienation always preceeds the act? Surely scholars have written on this, right?
Uggh, not worthy. I like what you wrote a lot. (We are never "worthy" of God's grace, that's the very nature of grace.) Somehow that teaching of sinful nature seems to sometimes seep into how some Christians hold themselves. I think it needs to be balanced by teachings such as Matthew Fox's emphasis on our original blessedness. I also like very much that Thomas Keating points, in his book on Centering Prayer, to basic goodness of our True Self, which is God living within.
If the idea of being unworthy or sinful is used by the self system to bolster low self-esteem, that it not, I believe, the intention of that teaching. Does this add anything to what you shared?
Yes! I agree, "sin" (an act) causes alienation and alienation also causes "sin" (an act of some kind).
Here's something I found just today "by" Meister Eckhart (more accurately, crafted from his ideas by Sweeney and Burrows):
Nothing of My Deeds
When I am in the wrong mind,
I presume that You desire
my goodness,
but when my mind turns aright,
I find that You want nothing
of my deeds
and everything of my heart.
Hmmmm. That aligns with some (maybe non-dual) formulations that God doesn't even see "sin", God doesn't see good or evil!!
Our basic goodness or our basic sinfulness? Such an important question. And I agree with you that the latter idea doesn't seem to serve us all that well.
It helps a bit if you look at the word "sin" in its etymological sense. It means *a-sunder* as far as know, separated from God, indeed also thrown out of Paradise, no longer innocent. That view has made the loaded word more palatable for me.,
I agree the word ‘sin’ is harsh, and ‘missing the mark’ speaks to my mistakes. My intention is to ‘live in alignment with the will of God’. I remember how subtle it was when the thought arose, with a smile came the words, “I’m in alignment”. I find the words, “I belong”……come from a deeper place, deep in my soul, “I belong”.
Thank you Bill for the opportunity to ponder my relationship with God, with life, in reference to sin, alienation, belonging. I shared your essay with friends. And thanks to the person who came to you at 8:30am, with questions!
Thank you, John, for your thoughts which add much to my musings. Re-reading my post, after publication, I see room for clarification and expansion. Your words help with that.
I like integration. I also like the idea of being “in harmony or in sync with” the divine nature (our true nature) as alternatives for salvation.
I will have to wrap this up for now but before I do, what do you think of grace as something like “action and/or healing which is effected without any ego if effort?”
Thank you for your musings and Zen kitty poses. I fully agree with your substitutions for the word "sin". Yes, sin is not so much a specific action, but a spiritual alienation. The word "sin" in Latin means "without" - cafe sin leche (coffee without cream). When we become "sinful" we have left our spiritual integrity and are feeling lost and afraid.
Yes, "belonging" is a good term for "salvation", but I would choose the word "integration" - a reunion or homecoming of my lost elements of Self back into a sense of wholeness and integrity. The word "grace" naturally fits into the discussion. I would term it as the ability to dis-integrate and to return to one's Self with a natural ease and minimal effort. Yes, cats are Olympic gold medal winners in this category (pun intended).
Thanks, Bill. Yes, "sin" has always been a word I have not appreciated. It seems to me that the feeling of alienation comes perhaps before the sin, the act of sinning, the alienation enables the sinful act.
Another Christian theological concept I find problematic is reflected in a phrase common in a Catholic service: "I'm not worthy to receive You..." Is there value in thinking of myself as in some way "not worthy"? It is similar to "sinful" in some ways. But God's Grace (or the Body of Christ in the Eucharist) is never something we are going to deserve anyway! That's exactly the point, that we don't "earn" or "deserve" grace. Is there value in expressing our unworthiness?
So...thoughts about "not worthy"?
It's an interesting thought, that alienation might come before the "act" and be its cause. I think there's something to that, for sure. I'm not sure that there is any other cause for so called "sinful acts," really. If one is 100% in tune with the divine, one would naturally behave in accordance with the divine. Is that your way fo thinking?
Another possibility is that the act causes the alienation. That seems like a valid description of at least some instances too. But since we are all living in a state of alienation all the time (just from our cultural inheritance of having been born into this fallen world (to continue using traditionalist language) then perhaps alienation always preceeds the act? Surely scholars have written on this, right?
Uggh, not worthy. I like what you wrote a lot. (We are never "worthy" of God's grace, that's the very nature of grace.) Somehow that teaching of sinful nature seems to sometimes seep into how some Christians hold themselves. I think it needs to be balanced by teachings such as Matthew Fox's emphasis on our original blessedness. I also like very much that Thomas Keating points, in his book on Centering Prayer, to basic goodness of our True Self, which is God living within.
If the idea of being unworthy or sinful is used by the self system to bolster low self-esteem, that it not, I believe, the intention of that teaching. Does this add anything to what you shared?
Yes! I agree, "sin" (an act) causes alienation and alienation also causes "sin" (an act of some kind).
Here's something I found just today "by" Meister Eckhart (more accurately, crafted from his ideas by Sweeney and Burrows):
Nothing of My Deeds
When I am in the wrong mind,
I presume that You desire
my goodness,
but when my mind turns aright,
I find that You want nothing
of my deeds
and everything of my heart.
Hmmmm. That aligns with some (maybe non-dual) formulations that God doesn't even see "sin", God doesn't see good or evil!!
Our basic goodness or our basic sinfulness? Such an important question. And I agree with you that the latter idea doesn't seem to serve us all that well.
Thanks for the nice conversation, Bill. :)
I will get back to you on this, Leslie!
It helps a bit if you look at the word "sin" in its etymological sense. It means *a-sunder* as far as know, separated from God, indeed also thrown out of Paradise, no longer innocent. That view has made the loaded word more palatable for me.,
Thank you Susanne, for adding the etymology of the word. Asunder does resonate more fully for me.
I agree the word ‘sin’ is harsh, and ‘missing the mark’ speaks to my mistakes. My intention is to ‘live in alignment with the will of God’. I remember how subtle it was when the thought arose, with a smile came the words, “I’m in alignment”. I find the words, “I belong”……come from a deeper place, deep in my soul, “I belong”.
Thank you Bill for the opportunity to ponder my relationship with God, with life, in reference to sin, alienation, belonging. I shared your essay with friends. And thanks to the person who came to you at 8:30am, with questions!
Thanks Sandy. I appreciate your thoughtful response!